Podcast: Divorced Couple Hosting a Mental Health Podcast


What if a divorced couple decided to make a podcast about mental health? What would it be like? Well, wonder no more, because here it is. Grab a cup of hot tea and tune in to the first episode of the totally revamped Not Crazy Podcast with Gabe and Lisa, a couple of divorcees who didn’t like each other’s cats.

What was their marriage like? Why talk about mental health? And what happened to the cats? Find out the answers to these questions and much more on today’s show.

(Transcript Available Below)

About The Not Crazy Podcast Hosts

Gabe Howard is an award-winning writer and speaker who lives with bipolar disorder. He is the author of the popular book, Mental Illness is an Asshole and other Observations, available from Amazon; signed copies are also available directly from Gabe Howard. To learn more, please visit his website, gabehoward.com.





Lisa is the producer of the Psych Central podcast, Not Crazy. She is the recipient of The National Alliance on Mental Illness’s “Above and Beyond” award, has worked extensively with the Ohio Peer Supporter Certification program, and is a workplace suicide prevention trainer. Lisa has battled depression her entire life and has worked alongside Gabe in mental health advocacy for over a decade. She lives in Columbus, Ohio, with her husband; enjoys international travel; and orders 12 pairs of shoes online, picks the best one, and sends the other 11 back.



Computer Generated Transcript for “Divorced Couple- Mental HealthEpisode

Editor’s NotePlease be mindful that this transcript has been computer generated and therefore may contain inaccuracies and grammar errors. Thank you.

Lisa: You’re listening to Not Crazy, a psych central podcast hosted by my ex-husband, who has bipolar disorder. Together, we created the mental health podcast for people who hate mental health podcasts.

Gabe: Hello, everybody, and welcome to the first episode of the Not Crazy Podcast. My name is Gabe Howard and I live with bipolar disorder and I’m really excited to be here with my producer and co-host and ex wife, Lisa.

Lisa: Hi, I’m Lisa.

Gabe: Wow.

Lisa: You didn’t plan. You were you were supposed to tell me what to say. I don’t know what to say.

Gabe: It’s not a scripted show. I’m not supposed to tell you what to say. You’re supposed to say whatever you want. I’m not the boss of you.

Lisa: Well, I want to say, hi, I’m Lisa.

Gabe: All right. That’s, that’s a very fair point. We’ve been doing this work for a decade. Not the podcast. We’ve just been doing mental health advocacy for a decade. But yet, all the trophies have my name on it, but I always thank you from the podium.

Lisa: Yes, you do, you’re very good at that.

Gabe: Very good at that.

Lisa: You do a good job with that.

Gabe: Why do you always want to be behind the scenes? What about the spotlight bugs you?

Lisa: It’s not so much of the spotlight bugs me it is just what’s wrong with behind the scenes? Why does everybody act like the only people who count are the people in the front? You know how they have those things at the end of movies where this supported 15,000 jobs, right? Yeah. Like, five of them were the actors. Why does everyone always act like they’re the most important part? They’re not the most important part. The person in the spotlight isn’t necessarily the most important part.

Gabe: I get what you’re saying, but visual representation is important. Like, for example, I know that I could not have gotten as far as I’ve gotten without you. For one thing, you have produced and edited the podcasts. I mean, you find guests for the Psych Central Podcast. You are production, engineering, audio. Obviously, all of those things are just incredibly important. But I think it might be a chicken and the egg thing, right? If there was no Gabe, there could be no Lisa. And I guess arguably, if there was no Lisa, there could be no Gabe. But this was my idea. I put my ass on the line. So if the whole thing failed, nobody would be like, oh, hey, Lisa screwed up. But they would be like, do you see that redheaded idiot?

Lisa: Ok.

Gabe: That’s it? That’s all you got?

Lisa: I don’t know, what do you want me to respond to that?

Gabe: You hid behind me. That’s what I’m saying. You rode my coattails.

Lisa: No. That’s not fair.

Gabe: To success.

Lisa: Or I propped you up.

Gabe: You lift me

Lisa: Yeah, that kind of thing,

Gabe: Up. That is, that is.

Lisa: Is so I can stand on mountains.

Gabe: It is fair and it is interesting. What made the switch? After all of these years, what made you decide, hey, I want to tell my story? I want people to know more of my opinions. Have I gotten it wrong the last decade? And you’re just like, man, I got to correct him?

Lisa: You know, good question, Gabe. It actually annoyed me the last time we talked about this. That’s not what happened. You know, that’s not what happened. You were desperate for someone to fill this role. And I was the only one who would do it. And so here I am. You act like, oh, gee, after all this time, your confidence has finally increased. You’re blooming. You’re a flower in the sun. I finally brought you out of your shell. No, that’s not what happened. I was perfectly happy with where I was. And then you’re like, hey, I’m desperate. Will you do this with me, please?

Gabe: That’s so mean.

Lisa: And so that’s what happened.

Gabe: That’s, that is partially what happened.

Lisa: That’s 100% what happened.

Gabe: Yes. It’s really, really hard to do a podcast. People think

Lisa: Which is why I’m so excited to get to join in. Great. This is just great because I would like to point out that all the other things that I do for the podcast, still there. Didn’t hire anyone new for that. Just mentioning

Gabe: I like you less.

Lisa: Don’t look at me like that.

Gabe: I didn’t like you a lot before this started. I like you less now. But it is true. People don’t realize just how much time, energy and effort goes into the podcast. And I don’t mean the production side of it. I mean, you know, how many hours go into when the recording is over, but how many hours go into getting to the point that you can record? And I’m not I’m not talking soundchecks and audio checks with which

Lisa: Although that took a really long time.

Gabe: That does take a long time. I’m also talking about, you know, getting the topics down and getting everything down, and especially since we’re talking about mental health. And one of the things that I’m so excited about having you on the show is a lot of people don’t realize that Lisa was also our lead researcher. So previously Lisa would do all of the research and hand it over to Gabe and company. And now Lisa does all the research and you’re just going to mention it on the show.

Lisa: I know, exciting right? This way, you won’t mess it up.

Gabe: This way I won’t mess it up?

Lisa: You do, you always mess it up.

Gabe: I do, I tend to work more on feelings, whereas you tend to work more on facts. I think this is why our marriage didn’t work out, because I felt that you were an idiot and you knew that I was.

Lisa: Yes, yes,

Gabe: So

Lisa: Yes.

Gabe: There we are. Let’s talk about that for a moment. What makes you want to work with your ex-husband? I am sincere. Just

Lisa: I don’t know.

Gabe: It is fascinating to me.

Lisa: It is a mystery wrapped in an enigma.

Gabe: Ok, stop it. Nobody wants to listen to a podcast with all this garbage.

Lisa: How do you know?

Gabe: I, I don’t. 

Lisa: You don’t know.

Gabe: It’s a first episode.

Lisa: Maybe this is going to be good. Maybe this is gonna be the most success. Maybe it’s the secret sauce. This is going to be the most successful episode you’ve ever had. You don’t know. It could be.

Gabe: Lisa, you live with depression.

Lisa: Yes.

Gabe: You live with depression.

Lisa: You’re changing the subject.

Gabe: You were suicidal for much of your life. You’ve had you’ve had massive emotional and mental issues. And I can’t help but notice that the way that you handled that was to marry somebody who was way sicker. So that standing next to me, you looked sane.

Lisa: That was not the original goal, but that is what happened. And it actually wasn’t until we were preparing to start doing this show because I kept thinking, well, this is Gabe’s thing. This is Gabe’s thing. This is Gabe’s thing. And then I started really thinking about it. I thought, huh, this is my thing. I am actually really qualified for this. Wow. Like, I totally didn’t realize because I’ve just been comparing myself to you this whole time. But just on my own merits.

Gabe: I hate that you think that you got here because I was desperate. There was an opening for a co-host, but there’s a lot of people that want to co-host a show like this. It’s an extraordinarily popular show. It’s on the Psych Central network.

Lisa: Psych Central does a lot.

Gabe: It’s big. This is this is what I do for a living. I make a full time living as a podcaster and a public speaker. I think that sometimes people hear you and they’re like, well, Gabe was desperate. He couldn’t find anybody. And I’m afraid that I’m gonna get a thousand letters saying, hey, if you want to ditch your ex wife, which is reasonable,

Lisa: Hmm.

Gabe: Then, you know, hey, why don’t you bring me in here? You are qualified to do this work. And one of the things that I’m most excited about is during every show, Lisa, factors in heavily, as are many other people at PsychCentral.com.

Lisa: Mm-hmm.

Gabe: Who, like you said, fifteen thousand jobs.

Lisa: No, there’s a lot of people involved, which is one of the reasons I think people don’t understand how much work it is. Because it’s so much passing back and forth and you do your part and then the next person does their part. And it just leaves a lot of room for error, frankly.

Gabe: Well, it does leave a lot of room for error, and I’m impressed and surprised at how little error we have.

Lisa: Yeah, we’re doing pretty well.

Gabe: And that pretty much describes how the Psych Central Podcast works. The biggest, best and longest running podcast on PsychCentral.com. It’s a great show. It’s very educational. I highly recommend it. But

Lisa: At PsychCentral.com/Show.

Gabe: But this is why we wanted to do Not Crazy. We wanted a lived experience show. And I want people to know that you have lived experience. You have your own lived experience. And you have the lived experience of helping me. You were you were my peer supporter back

Lisa: Aww.

Gabe: Before it was called peer support, all the way back in 2003 when I was diagnosed. If it wasn’t for you answering my questions and telling me what was reasonable and what was not reasonable, helping me navigate a horrific mental health system. And I had insurance, I had

Lisa: Yeah.

Gabe: Money, I had resources. I don’t think that I would have gotten to this point. I don’t want people to think that you’re just in front of the microphone because you have nothing to share. And Gabe needed a woman’s voice and I

Lisa: No, I like I said, until we started doing this and I had to write my bio and stuff and I was just like, whoa, I’m way more qualified than I thought. Hey, the other thing that was kind of annoying is when you said, hey, Lisa’s gonna be my co-host and people said, but she doesn’t have mental illness. And I thought, screw all of you people. One, wow, you people don’t pay attention or listen to me at all. Or you would know that I do in fact have mental illness. But then the second part was really, is that how I’m perceived? Is it just because I’m standing next to you? Or am I passing that well?

Gabe: And should that be?

Lisa: I mean, what’s happening?

Gabe: That’s an interesting thing that you brought up. You’re upset that people don’t realize that you’re mentally ill

Lisa: Well, I.

Gabe: And the whole rest of society is upset when people perceive them as mentally ill. So it’s a little bit bizarre, right? Like,

Lisa: Well, it’s both.

Gabe: Do you really want people to think that you’re a mentally ill person? Because I’m positive that would offend you.

Lisa: Well, it’s both because on the one hand, I thought, how do you not know about my own history of mental illness? Who do you think you are to tell me that I’m not mentally ill? I have the street cred on this people. But then when other people look at me, they don’t see someone with mental illness, but I see it in myself. So that’s kind of interesting. And I guess feels good. I’m not sure. I’m not sure how I feel about it. I go both ways.

Gabe: Let’s switch gears and talk about why we’re still friends.

Lisa: Ok,

Gabe: People are fascinated by this, and I want to point out that we did not have like a Britney Spears marriage. When I say we’re exes, I don’t mean we got married in Vegas for the weekend. We were married for five years. We were together a couple of years before that. This is a seven, eight year romantic relationship. We were in love. We bought a house. We talked about having children. This was a real relationship. And I don’t know why I feel the need to state that. But I think when people see that we’re friends and they find out that we’re exes, they think, well, the marriage must have dissolved quickly. And that’s not the case. Why? Why are we here? We don’t have children. There’s nothing to tie us together. We don’t own a business together. Why are you here?

Lisa: You know, I don’t know and I’ve been thinking about that a lot over the last couple of weeks. I don’t know. Why is that? Why did that happen? Maybe.

Gabe: I have many, many theories. But one of the things that I think about is why? Why do we need a theory? Like isn’t this a plus? Like, if I was driving my car and my car ran off a cliff and I walked away without a scratch. Now, that is unusual, right? But I would just be happy. I’d be like, hey, I lived and I would just be pleased that it happened. But it’s weird because people aren’t pleased that this happened. They don’t think, oh, my God, that’s fantastic. Wow. They’re like, why? Well, you can correct it now. You don’t have to talk to her. We have family members that still to this

Lisa: Yes.

Gabe: Day, 10 years later, they’re like, well, you don’t have to be friends. And they’re actively discouraging it. Again, go back to the car flew off the cliff analogy. People aren’t like, you know, you can go back to that cliff and try again. You could. You could jump off the cliff. And I bet the second time would kill you because rightfully you should have died. So you really need to. Why isn’t it just a good thing? Why isn’t it a good thing that two people corrected their relationship and don’t hate each other? Because we have many things to hate each other for. We did not have a.

Lisa: We did not have a good marriage.

Gabe: Right.

Lisa: No.

Gabe: And as evidenced by the fact

Lisa: That we are now divorced.

Gabe: Yeah,

Lisa: Yes.

Gabe: Yeah.

Lisa: It actually makes me sad to say that that we didn’t have a good marriage.

Gabe: Why?

Lisa: I don’t know. I

Gabe: It ended in a divorce.

Lisa: I know. I know. It just it always makes me sad when you say that.

Gabe: Well, I mean, admitting failure is hard. But to stay on track, just to stay on the topic. Obviously, this worked out OK. We’re both remarried. The love of our lives. Your husband, Viroj, is awesome. My wife, Kendall, equally awesome. Everything is fine. We don’t need to, but why are people so focused, so focused on the fact that we are exes? And why do they think it’s weird? And what does that say about a greater society that if a romantic relationship or a marriage doesn’t work out, you’re supposed to be enemies?

Lisa: Well, you’re not supposed to be enemies, you’re supposed to be arch enemies. It’s your deepest hate.

Gabe: I’m surprised when I’m up on stage and I tell the story of of me being suicidal.

Lisa: Mm-hmm.

Gabe: Of going to the emergency room. And people find out that you are my ex-wife. And that’s all they want to talk about.

Lisa: Mm-hmm.

Gabe: Everything that I’ve achieved, everything that I’ve done. And what they want to know is why? Why are you friends with your ex wife? And they say, well, you have kids like that, OK?

Lisa: Yeah, that’s always the thing.

Gabe: You’re modeling the way for the children. Yeah. No, no.

Lisa: One hundred percent of the time people go, oh, children.

Gabe: No, no kid. Then they’re like, well, you had pets together. We did, but we hated each other’s pets. I brought in a cat that Lisa hated and

Lisa: I didn’t hate him.

Gabe: Lisa brought in a cat that I hated.

Lisa: Yeah, you did hate him. I didn’t hate him. He just wasn’t my favorite.

Gabe: When we got divorced, you got rid of him.

Lisa: No, I do no. Take that back. That is not true.

Gabe: Did he live with you after we got divorced?

Lisa: At first. My husband, Viroj, is deathly allergic to cats. I didn’t believe him and made him go get an allergy test, and yeah there was just no way. Once we moved in together, that was just not feasible for me to keep the cats. But it’s not like I got rid of just him and kept the other cats.

Gabe: You know, your favorite cat. Let’s say that Viroj was allergic to that cat?

Lisa: See, that would have been a problem. That would have been. That cat had passed away by the time Viroj and I lived together.

Gabe: Mm-hmm.

Lisa: I actually did think about that. That would have been a problem. I don’t know that I would have been willing to give up that cat for a relationship. And people said that to me. I got a lot of flak on that, actually. People like, oh, my God, you’re getting rid of your cats? That’s horrible. One. I found them a very good home with my best friend. So I knew I could see them whenever I wanted. And they were perfectly well taken care of.

Gabe: I thought I was your best friend?

Lisa: Well, you know what I mean. I found them a very good home where they were very happy. And they lived in little kitty paradises.

Gabe: I’m really surprised that you did not go with the you didn’t take them either, Gabe, and you just said he was your favorite cat.

Lisa: No, I don’t know why this matters, because the cat has long since died.

Gabe: But, through no fault of our own.

Lisa: No.

Gabe: The cat lived another eight years.

Lisa: No. No. He just got old.

Gabe: We visited the cat all the time. We loved the cat. Cat was fantastic.

Lisa: Yeah.

Gabe: I mean, Lisa did love the cat. I love the cat.

Lisa: I don’t know why this is bothering me, that it’s bothering me. As if the dead cat is going to be listening to this and will be offended because Mommy didn’t love him. So I don’t know why this is bothering me, but don’t say that. Don’t say that. I did not get rid of the cat. That’s a terrible thing. Don’t say that.

Gabe: Daddy Gabe had to move into a very small apartment, which is all he could afford because I had just reached recovery with bipolar disorder and then my, you know, ex-wife got rid of my cat. That’s how I tell the story.

Lisa: Ok. No, the cats continued to be with me for the next two years, and then we found them a kitty paradise house.

Gabe: Kitty paradise house? And people are surprised to hear that I lived with three cats for our marriage. I think that’s what did us in. And it’s 

Lisa: It’s always the children’s fault.

Gabe: Always the? No, it’s not. It’s never the children. You’re

Lisa: That’s why it’s funny.

Gabe: You’ve got that backwards. You were a great cat mom. And obviously, we’re really, really glad that our friend had taken the cat and it worked out at a great time for her, too. And obviously the cats loved her. She was their aunt their entire life. And it made sense for all of us where we were going because,

Lisa: Everyone was pleased.

Gabe: Yeah, I mean, right. Life changed a lot. But it is interesting, our different perspectives on it. 

Lisa: We’ll be right back after these messages.

Announcer: Interested in learning about psychology and mental health from experts in the field? Give a listen to the Psych Central Podcast, hosted by Gabe Howard. Visit PsychCentral.com/Show or subscribe to The Psych Central Podcast on your favorite podcast player.

Announcer: This episode is sponsored by BetterHelp.com. Secure, convenient, and affordable online counseling. Our counselors are licensed, accredited professionals. Anything you share is confidential. Schedule secure video or phone sessions, plus chat and text with your therapist whenever you feel it’s needed. A month of online therapy often costs less than a single traditional face to face session. Go to BetterHelp.com/PsychCentral and experience seven days of free therapy to see if online counseling is right for you. BetterHelp.com/PsychCentral.

Gabe: The first episode of the Not Crazy Podcast continues now.

Lisa: I was worried about what we were going to talk about at first, but now over the last few days, I’ve been thinking about all the things that I have to say. And you’ve all been listening to Gabe for years. And so you’ve all heard his version of various things that have happened. But now you can hear the real one, which is also known as my version.

Gabe: I love how you are trying to insinuate that I am a liar to our audience.

Lisa: No, you just frame things incorrectly. I can tell the story better.

Gabe: You know, that’s very interesting, though, that you bring that up because it’s gonna be true. Two people standing, watching the exact same thing, having the exact same experience, experience it differently. And that’s one of the things that I think that maybe the medical establishment, you know, psychiatry, scientists, etc., that they leave out and talk about, like here are the symptoms of bipolar disorder or anxiety

Lisa: Right.

Gabe: Or schizophrenia, or psychosis. And you get this idea in your head that everybody experiences them the same way. You are right, Lisa. The way that we experience our marriage, our breakup, even different arguments that we had along the way, even different successes. You know, your favorite vacation is not my favorite vacation. And people understand that husbands and wives do not experience their relationship in the same way. Yet we live in a world where people believe that everybody with bipolar disorder experiences in the same way, everybody with major depression experiences the same way. We’re all exactly the same. And I hope.

Lisa: That’s a really good point.

Gabe: If nothing else, that this show just obliterates that idea and gives people the power to stand up and say, you know, I’m not like every single person that you read about on the Internet. But we do have things in common, just like married people have things in common. We don’t disagree on everything.

Lisa: That is a very interesting point, I had actually never considered that.

Gabe: I know. I’m wise.

Lisa: Everyone always does make it out like your mental illness experience should be exactly in a certain way. It should follow this step, then this step, then this step. And the thing where it really gets you is when they feel like, hey, you tried the medication and it didn’t work or you were diagnosed X number of months ago and

Gabe: You should be better by now.

Lisa: Be better by now, right. Yeah.

Gabe: Well, why should I be better? Well, I read on the Internet that you can be better in four months. Well, there is this one guy on the Internet that he did yoga and he’s better. This one woman on the Internet, she started eating watermelon seeds, which she chewed up the seeds. But she chews them on her back to eat, not her front teeth. And then she did yoga and then she walked a mile a day and then she got a dog and that cured psychosis and she no longer has zits on her butt. It’s like that. 

Lisa: Yes.

Gabe: And it’s everywhere.

Lisa: It is everywhere.

Gabe: And our stories are valuable and they’re valuable because they’re different. That’s why a show like this needs to exist. And that’s why we started it.

Lisa: That was very profound, actually. Nice. Good job.

Gabe: I know. It’s almost like I do this for a living. Lisa, welcome to the show. And welcome to your first day as a professional podcaster.

Lisa: Aww, thank you, Gabe. And that’s true. I’m a professional Podcaster now, I can tell people that,

Gabe: Yeah, you’re very

Lisa: Yea me.

Gabe: Welcome. Now, for the rest of your life, when you tell people that they will assume that you live in your parents’ basement.

Lisa: But that’s because those people didn’t have podcasts as good as our podcast,

Gabe: I mean,

Lisa: Which is actually the best of the podcasts.

Gabe: We have the best of the podcasts?

Lisa: Exactly.

Gabe: Like, like Marc Maron is just gone? That UFC guy? I mean, just. Yeah. Yeah.

Lisa: Anita Sarkeesian.

Gabe: NPR?

Lisa: Well, NPR, I mean. 

Gabe: I mean, we’re better than all of 

Lisa: Not NPR.

Gabe: Than all of those podcasts? Yeah, yeah.

Lisa: Better than most podcasts, just not all the podcasts.

Gabe: Yes. I like to tell people that when it comes to personal journals, mental health, education, extra, we’re in the top 10.

Lisa: You know, that’s a good point. I do that all the time when I’m trying to get people in the Psych Central Show. I’ll say, you know, the Psych Central Podcast is in the iTunes Top 10. And people would be like, oh my god. Really? You’re an iTunes Top 10 podcast? Yes, in the health and wellness category.

Gabe: One of the interesting things I think about being friends with your ex. You know me in a very intimate way, but you’re gone

Lisa: Right.

Gabe: Now, people say that we bicker like brother and sister and we’re like, oh, we’re exes.

Lisa: We get that a lot.

Gabe: And they’re like, oh, I saw that.

Lisa: Well, no you didn’t.

Gabe: Like, no you didn’t. You thought we were brother and sister. Do you think that it’s good? Is this a mentally healthy decision for us? Like, should you just be the crazy woman I divorced 15 years ago? Or like, is it good that you’re still coming over to my house and hanging out with my wife?

Lisa: You know, I don’t know. And people ask me about this all the time. We have actually when we’re out in public or when we’re doing professional meetings, etc., we’ve actually stopped telling people about this aspect of our relationship. Because it immediately becomes the only thing anyone can focus on.

Gabe: This is going to help. I think having a podcast

Lisa: You think?

Gabe: Where we do nothing but talk about mental illness, mental health and debate things and of course, tell people at the top of every show that you’re my ex-wife and that I’m your ex husband? That will definitely make people ask less questions. Definitely. 

Lisa: I thought you were serious.

Gabe: You know how popular things on television nobody talks about? Like we won’t get e-mails, we won’t get social media posts. No, this will take care of the whole problem.

Lisa: It’s annoying. It’s as if it’s the most important aspect of our lives that we used to be married and we’re now divorced. It’s not. And going back to when you said the whole thing about do you think this is a good thing? I realize that this sounds stupid, but it never occurred to me that we would lose contact. You’ve written several blog posts, you’ve spoken before about how you just always assumed eventually we would drift apart. You know, when once we sold the house, the divorce was finalized? You know, at a certain point you just feel like, oh, hey, I haven’t talked to her in forever, okay.

Gabe: Right.

Lisa: I never thought that. And I don’t know if that’s just because I was really unrealistic. But I honestly never did. It never occurred to me that would happen. It never occurred to me that you wouldn’t always be there. I don’t know. Maybe that’s mental illness. I don’t know

Gabe: Then why did you divorce me? If you wanted me around?

Lisa: Exactly right.

Gabe: Why?

Lisa: That’s what.

Gabe: Why? You discarded me

Lisa: That’s. Oh, come on. Don’t do that.

Gabe: Like garbage.

Lisa: Stop it. I understand that these two things don’t go together because, hey, if you wanted to make sure he was around all the time, we should’ve stayed married. But,

Gabe: Yeah,

Lisa: Yeah,

Gabe: That’s definitely a symptom of something.

Lisa: Well, probably.

Gabe: I don’t know what it is. But I guarantee you it’s hard to pronounce.

Lisa: I, I don’t know. I feel like, it’s hard to say because of course it’s hard for me to remember how I felt then because I can only relate it to how I feel now. But it never occurred to me that we would lose contact. I don’t know that it occurred to me that we would be this close. We’d still be talking daily, etc. But it’s never seemed odd to me. It’s never seemed like a weird thing that I need to explain to other people. But apparently everybody else thinks it is because I need to explain it and justify it constantly. But it never seemed to me like something I should have to explain or justify.

Gabe: It’s interesting that a couple of mentally ill people who have really just been through the wringer when it comes to our mental health have figured out how to have a, we’re going to go with a marginally healthy relationship, whereas all these well people. I make an air quotes, all these healthy and well adjusted people literally just sit around screaming,

Lisa: Mm-hmm.

Gabe: Screaming about their exes. They’re just they’re so angry at them. And they, I’ve been in these parties before where one person just spends the entire time talking about their ex, whom they hate. And I’m like, there’s clearly something there. You have spent four hours talking about this person. It’s all negative,

Lisa: Yeah.

Gabe: But nobody can get you off of that subject. That person is controlling your life in a very negative way. And hey.

Lisa: It’s often amazed me that if you, like you said, went on and on and on and were completely focused on this intense hatred you feel for this person that you haven’t seen in months or years. And for some reason, that’s a better choice. That indicates that you have a better emotional wellbeing when you just go nuts and hate this person forever.

Gabe: I like that we can keep our intense hatred and our friendship like co-occurring. That’s

Lisa: It’s definitely the healthiest way to do things. Yeah.

Gabe: That’s really good. Lisa, I am excited for this podcast. I am excited for all the things that we’re gonna discuss. I’m excited to explore mental illness in pop culture. I’m excited to explore. I’m just excited to explore because there’s so much to talk about and we’re excited for the guests that we’re gonna have on the show. We’re excited for the topics and we’re just excited for the questions that we’re gonna answer. And if you have suggestions, topics, questions, hit us up. It’s show@PsychCentral.com and tell us about them. Lisa, do you have any parting words before we head on out?

Lisa: Well, I don’t know, I feel it. I just thought there’d be more discussion. Shall we talk about more stuff?

Gabe: What do you want to talk about?

Lisa: I don’t know?

Gabe: So you think I’m doing it wrong, but you don’t have a solution?

Lisa: Well, I don’t. I don’t know. Should we talk more about how our relationship ended or like how we got together or something like that?

Gabe: She gave me a fake name. We should have known it was doomed. When the day that we met, you told me your name was something different than Lisa. Like that was.

Lisa: Well, no reason to give you my real name.

Gabe: If we were writing a book.

Lisa: It’s not like we were ever going to talk again.

Gabe: That would be foreshadowing. And yet truth is absolutely stranger than fiction. We can’t give it all away on the first show.

Lisa: Oh.

Gabe: People have to have a reason to tune in next week. We also need to let people know this is not all we’re gonna talk about. Obviously, it’s going to permeate everything because, well, we can’t choose where to go to eat without getting in a fight about something that happened in 2005.

Lisa: Well, you were wrong.

Gabe: I was not

Lisa: No, you so were.

Gabe: I don’t even know what it was. But I was not.

Lisa: It doesn’t matter. You were wrong.

Gabe: Lisa, I’m excited to work with you. I’m very glad you’re here.

Lisa: Aww.

Gabe: All right, everybody, here’s what we need you to do. If you love the show, please subscribe, please rate, rank and review. That is very important for new podcasts. Use your words. Give us as many stars as possible. Share us on social media. Email all of your friends and email show@PsychCentral.com and tell us what you want to hear more about. We will see everybody next Tuesday.

Lisa: See you then.

Announcer: You’ve been listening to the Not Crazy Podcast from Psych Central. For free mental health resources and online support groups, visit PsychCentral.com. Not Crazy’s official website is PsychCentral.com/NotCrazy. To work with Gabe, go to gabehoward.com. Want to see Gabe and me in person?  Not Crazy travels well. Have us record an episode live at your next event. E-mail show@psychcentral.com for details. 


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